Constructing Wisdom with Ros Wade

Emily (00:19) Hello, hello everyone and welcome to this episode of Saroca Speaks. We are here with a very special guest with which we will introduce in one moment, but I am your host, Emily and I am joined by my beautiful co-host, it's Claire. Claire Adamou (00:35) It's Claire! Emily (00:37) Today we are joined by the fabulous and incredible Rosalind Wade. We are here to dive into all things female executive, iGaming mindfulness, yoga, self care, real life. We're really excited to be here with you, Roz. How are you doing today? Wade (00:49) and Hi Emily, hi Claire. So good to be here with you lovely ladies. I was honoured and surprised actually but honoured to be invited to this so it's great. It's beautiful day here in England. I've just come back from an Asia trip so it's nice to come back to Sunshine. Claire Adamou (01:12) Yeah, I am loving the sunshine, I'm not going to lie. I had a cool yesterday morning that got cancelled and it was a blessing in disguise because before work I, like a crazy person, went outside and did some gardening before I even turned on my computer because the weather was glorious. Wade (01:14) day. Emily (01:29) It's so uplifting that it makes such a difference, at least for me and my wellbeing. And I can't say that it's the same here though, today on the West coast of Canada, it is gray and still spring, but a gloomy spring day, if you will. Okay, well let's get into it. we're, know, as much as this podcast is not, you know, an iGaming podcast per se. So if you are listening and you're like, what the heck is iGaming? Roz, Claire and I, if you are new here, we come, or we all know each other from having worked in the online gambling industry, online gaming industry known as iGaming. So that gives you a little bit of context. So, you know, and if you are an iGaming buff or geek like we are, you'll probably really enjoy today's episode because we're going to get into all kinds of things. But Roz, let's tell us a little bit about, because as we were coming into the podcast, I was thinking... Maybe once you start talking, I'll be reminded, but I don't actually really know your origin story into gaming and what was life like for you before gaming. So I thought maybe we could start there and tell us a little bit about, you know, who was Rosalind Wade before Manila, before Asia gambling briefing. Wade (02:36) You feel me? It feels like forever ago. So I came into it through events. So I've always been in events. So business conferences started with what was then Institute for International Research, IIR, which is one of the big sort of business conferences. So commercial conferences in that we came up with the ideas and then we had to research the topic. you know, come up with, you know, find speakers obviously, and then manage the whole thing to fulfill them, which is the conference taking place. So it taught me a lot of good skills. It's one of those jobs that you didn't really know existed, but it's creative because, you know, you're literally creating a product. You create the brochure. Of course, we had brochures then, which you mailed in the post. And... And then you you created a finished product which was the event and that was very fulfilling so sort of fast forward I've been in Hong Kong for four years and that's where I got started in events then I sort of gone to Singapore States back to the UK and ended up back in Hong Kong in 2007 working for a former colleague in for beacon events, which was Well, you don't need to know the backstory of that. So the very first event I did there was a gaming event with a partner. And that partner was River City Group and Sue Schneider, who had just been bought by Clarion Gaming. So they were none too pleased. They'd done a couple of events in Australia and one in Macau, I think, called the Pacific Congress on iGaming And Clarion, in their wisdom, had told Sue that she needed an Asian partner. because my boss had links with Clarion for one reason or another, you know, we got that gig. So Sue, not best pleased frankly, to have to be working with a commercial gaming conference company and we were going to make it all like, you know, about the money and everything, which we did double attendance and triple revenue, I think in the first year. So we did do our job. and then did it with them the second year again. And then the third year, Clarion came along and said, oh no, thanks ever so much, but I think we'll do it by ourselves now again. And we were like, oh no, I don't think so. I haven't spent two years building up this network of sort of iGaming people. And frankly, yes, it was very good fun. So in terms of before and after, the first iGaming event I ever did, it was unlike any other conference I'd ever done. from then on I think hooked on the iGaming industry. had my reservations you know beforehand potentially but but yes so they never looked back as many of us don't when we started. So that was that so we we and then I Clarion also sorry there's a previous Clarion of course not the current day Clarion you know didn't didn't did the dirty on Sue as well so after that we became firm allies. Emily (05:12) I Wade (05:25) And I think we had one clash where Clarion tried to do an event in Asia and I did mine. And I won and they didn't. So it was a bit David and Goliath, honestly. But yeah, I you know, I really worked to build up that network and I still rely on that today. Claire Adamou (05:34) Okay. Emily (05:45) Tell us a little bit about what are you doing today? We'll get into the meat of it, but from that rewind to the current day, the fast forward to now, what are you doing now? Wade (05:49) ⁓ Hmm. So, fast forward to now, and I'm still in events and still in Asia. So there was a sort of fairly big hiatus, starting with COVID and, you know, some sort of personal issues, family issues, which meant that it was difficult for me to do anything for a few years. So, so then I spent a lot of time talking to people at the various global events and it turns out people still associated me with events and with Asia. So I decided to set up Winna Media and really focusing on more smaller, more bespoke kind of networking events rather than conferences. Although saying that, I did do a conference in Thailand last December. Because Thailand. Emily (06:44) So tell us a little bit about Winna's mission and the mark that you're making now and that you endeavor that you will endeavor to continue to make. Claire Adamou (06:45) I know. Wade (06:54) Well, I think it's a personal thing as well in that, you know, couple of years ago, these events started proliferating and I was seeing people that have been at events for kind of six weeks in a row during the summer. So it's just not okay. You know, it's not okay for the business, for the industry. It's not okay for people's personal and health. Do you know what I mean? Well, going to these events, can't really even meet the people you want to meet. You weren't even seeing your friends. And the events, and what in the blinking heck is the point of that then? I thought, like, you know, the whole point about being in this industry is this great network, global family that we have. And when that starts to sort of get dispersed, what have you, no doubt it's great for the industry. You know, it's grown so much over the last 10 years. I don't know, 15, whatever it is. Emily (07:44) 20, 25. Wade (07:44) and that's brilliant for all the startups, but I think for people who've grown up it or who've been in it for a while, we sort of miss the old days, if you like, not to get all old lady about it, when you did talk to people about other things than work, where you kind of spent time with people, where you got to know them a bit, and in my opinion, business is never just business. I really hate it when people say that. It's not, you do business with people. And I've made it, I mean, I've always been fair and honest and above board in my dealings with people, as friendly and helpful as I possibly can. And I think that's the reason why, you know, I still have a good network today. So I wanted to bring it back to that, you know, where people actually genuinely spend time with each other and getting to know each other, because that's what I think is the best for doing business. Claire Adamou (08:39) I love that. You know, when you were saying that, Ros, do you know what popped into my head is that old, say the old, I'm sorry, it's like an 80s or 90s sitcom called Cheers. You know, it's like where everybody knows your name. And I think back to those days, you're right, you know, where it was a one room in a hotel and it was just pure chat. wasn't that many booths. It was all that networking. And that's where Wade (08:40) them. Claire Adamou (09:05) You know, some of us say veterans and some of us say dinosaurs. And I think that's where we are such a tight community because we, you said, you know, grew up that way. We did. You know, we've been almost 20 years, most of us doing this, that it is kind of an evolution of our careers. And it started from that really tight knit, small networking where it really is about the people and building those relationships and those are what stands the test of time. Wade (09:17) Hmm. for sure. Claire Adamou (09:34) So I love that that's what you're trying now to recreate and take it kind of strip it back to the basics. Wade (09:41) Yeah, and you know, there's virtue in being big and, you know, and being the biggest or whatever it is, but I also don't believe we always have to, you this impetus always to grow, to be bigger, to be bigger, to be bigger. Like that's also not helpful, I think, in a number of ways. Do you know what I mean? I mean, fine if you're a public company and you have to it for your shareholders, but a lot of those are just, you know, individuals or smallish companies or what have you. And I don't know, growth really always have to be the goal. don't know. Emily (10:13) I love this. I say this all of the time, particularly when I work with sales teams, is like when we look at the cyclical nature of things, of life, nothing grows all year round. So, you know, this capitalistic, which like, don't get me wrong, you know, I'm not here to get political by any means, but like, I'm not opposed to capitalism. I, you know, I am opposed to capitalism at all costs and without, you know, some mindful intention. But that just brings us back, like brings me back to the point, yes, perhaps there is a distinction between if you, you know, are accountable. to your shareholders and but the concept even that we expect things to grow all year round, right? Despite everything around us, everything that this planet models to us, that nature models to us, nothing grows all year round. So where do we, I'm not saying dwell on the ebbs and live in the ebbs, but know that the flow is coming and that you can continue to work to cultivate that. But I do think you're right on the money. there, Roz, is like, you know. Wade (11:17) Well, right, I mean, it's unnatural when you think about it, isn't it? And there needs to be fallow time, I think, in our brains as well. So, I mean, I deliberately didn't do an event in the first half of this year. Not great for cash flow, but I've got a lot of other stuff going on. And, you know, I don't want to sort of, like, kill myself. just to make money as it were. And also think you need that sort of fellow time for fertility of ideas. a lot of the concept for the Hot 100, these events that I'm talking about was doing dog walks and kind of letting brain space happen. And that can't happen if you're always at full tilt, I think. Emily (11:54) Yeah, I think that I'll just give next.io a little shout out because Claire and I just came back from Valletta and I had the honor of being on the advisory board for the personal development track and I'm really excited about where we're kind of going with them in that relationship. Claire Adamou (11:55) Yeah. Emily (12:09) And partly because their intention was to create more of a festival week as opposed to a conference for two days. And they're, they wove in all of these opportunities for wellbeing. So whether you wanted to run or box or, you know, I did yoga by the sea. Roz, you would have loved it. I'll show you the, the, the images. Literally we were like out on this jetty, like floating in the middle of the ocean. Wade (12:23) Listen. Nice. Emily (12:34) but you get what I mean. were still landlocked, but it was gorgeous. Anyway, so they did a really good job. And I think that you, to just really capitalize on this point, and perhaps one of the things that those of us that have been around the industry for a while know and love about it is it is so relationship-based. It's so, and to nurture those relationships and to support each other and whether you can be a connector or a referral or a client or a... Wade (12:36) ⁓ what a... Emily (13:00) supplier, I think that we have we get to do business with people that we enjoy doing business with and people brilliant minds that are really incredible at what they do and I think perhaps that's another element. But I love what you said about like that global family it is that's so funny it's like Hotel California you know I left for Wade (13:09) That's right. Emily (13:19) but remained adjacent, right? Like, you know, still in relationship with so many people, this. Pardon me? Wade (13:22) Yeah. and pulled you back. We'll get Becky back soon, one day too. We'll get Becky back one day soon too, Emily (13:32) Yes, we're going to have her on the pod. We're hoping to get her on the podcast actually. So that should be great. Wade (13:38) Great. Claire Adamou (13:39) So just talking about the relationships that we have built over the years, you are currently, and I've been doing this for a little while, spotlighting individual and influential women in the industry. And I really love this. And I think Emily and I are proud that you've mentioned us. I'm like, my God, I got mentioned. So thank you. Wade (14:03) There's so many, like, I need to do. ⁓ Claire Adamou (14:07) Yeah, I mean, why is this so important to you? I know that you have an incredible network, you have an impeccable reputation, but why is it important for you to kind of highlight the women in the industry that are inspiring to you or doing incredible things and you really want to give, you know, space for that recognition? Wade (14:29) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it started on, it was International Women's Day. And frankly, you know, I looking around for inspirational things to share, know, how marvelous and everything. And it was just really all very saccharine, you know, like ads, ads, you know, for Nike or whoever it might be. yeah, women, great. yeah, you know. And I'm only very, very, you know, baseless and meaningless really. And I couldn't find anything. that I was kind of proud to share. In fact, it was the opposite. There was a lot of stories about like how far women hadn't come. I was like, really depressed. I'm like, well, this is rubbish. And then I thought, yeah, well, hang on. And why is it just one day? Well, that's stupid. You know what mean? Like we're over half the population. And then, okay, you know, maybe some people don't identify, you know, who aren't male don't identify as female, whatever, you know, maybe we're 40%. well, let's do 40, I'll take up 40 % of the time I think then, you know, just what like women and like I do know so many now, you know, when I started there really weren't hardly any and especially not in Asia. And now, you know, being back in Europe is one thing that I really appreciated is just having that community of amazing female leaders, people are just so inspirational, friends, know, but just, you know, seeing friends do so well. Emily (15:22) Thank you. Wade (15:44) and having so many women to look up to. So I just started doing it and it's just kind of like there's no walls, know, it's not in ranking order. There's no like, no, you know, motivation for it. There's no, nothing's gonna happen from it or anything. I just really enjoy actually getting to know a little bit more about these women and, you know, spreading the love and like then everybody's really likes them and then, and I think it's important, you know, I was thinking about sort of early career and there was always some woman in my life, you know, that I looked up to, who was independent, had a really cool life, you know, probably weren't married and didn't have kids, they're able to do that. But, you know, so I think it's important, you never know who you might be an inspiration for. So it's important to like, you know, celebrate. One, people that you look up to, but also sort of the next generation of people and your peers, of course. So yeah, just loving doing it. And there's just so many I want to get to, you know. Emily (16:43) Well, perhaps it's a great opportunity that, you know, we wanted to really acknowledge and thank you and share with the world that you were the inspiration and the impetus for us starting our Transformational Leadership Program, which really is, you know, about supporting leadership development, this program specifically in the iGaming space. And it started out just for women. But of course, now, as you're aware, we opened it up. Claire Adamou (16:43) I love you. Emily (17:09) But, you know, tell, do you remember that moment when you said this to me about two and a half, two and a half years ago now or so? Wade (17:14) I do. I do. ⁓ I think it was not, you know, I think it must be more than that because I think I was not living in this place where I'm living now, I in the other flat, I think. Emily (17:26) Yeah, that may have been. Wade (17:26) I think so. you know, we were working together sort of more on a personal level and you were doing some coaching for me because, know, I was a bit lost, honestly. You know, just personally, kind of just my whole life had disappeared in Asia and found myself back in the UK, kind of no job, no life. And so like, who was Ros Wade anymore? That was a real big thing. So like, who was I anymore? And you helped me so. much during that period, just being somebody that I could, you know, objective and non-judgmental, that I could pour my heart out to and try and figure a way through, you know, which was a big mess really. So just, I thank you so much for that. So I think it was like, as I said just before we started this, it just sort of came down from the universe, didn't it, as we were talking and I just gave voice to it. So was my way of saying thank you. to everything you did to support me during that period. how brilliant that has come to fruition in this reality now. Emily (18:21) Yeah, so there was a moment where I was literally said, you need to do a women in gaming leadership development program. And it was like the words struck me like lightning in that, like I knew it would happen. I knew we would do it. I in a way couldn't actually believe we hadn't done it already. That it was like one of those. Wade (18:39) It just seemed obvious, right? Like it should have already happened, yeah. Emily (18:42) Yeah, and so that then birthed the leadership program, which then evolved into the transformational leadership program of which we're in our second year now. So thank you for that inspiration. And I love the ripple effect, you know, the butterfly effect of this work and those kinds of conversations. It's really so powerful. Claire Adamou (19:00) Ros how was it working with Emily as your coach? And we don't have to go too personal. I know you just touched on that and kind of where you were in life and such a big transition, right? From coming from, you know, bringing your life back from Asia and bringing it to the UK and having a lot of change. Can you touch a little bit more on what it's like to have, you know, coaching sessions from and maybe how that's impacted sort of then the future or the last couple of years really of your change of career and now obviously you're you know you're doing so many incredible things and we just talked about the smaller networking events we talked about how you're championing women is there anything that you feel comfortable to share from that time? Wade (19:43) Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, for me, I guess I was anxious to sort of figure out the next stage in my professional life because as say, everything has sort just gone puff and no events obviously were there anywhere in the world. And then, yeah, so... you know, not living in Asia anymore, so my network had sort of, you know, disappeared. so, but what Emily did for me was bring it back and say, you know, just be good, you know, I can't even put it into words, but it was more about like building myself back up again. So, you know, yes, this whole identity thing, it was, you know, to take it, you know, she was trying to tell me to take a step back, to be patient with myself, that this was sort of, you know, a bit of hiatus, if you like, I was in a limbo period, but that's okay, do you know what I mean? You don't always have to rush to know what the answer is or to... No, exactly, and... Emily (20:33) Nothing grows all year round. Wade (20:38) man growth, you know, like there's painful, like transformation is painful. And remember writing that, like transformation is painful and it is, but you know, Emily is there to hold your hand through it and gently kind of, you know, get you back to a point where you are, you know, you are making the decision. So you are hearing that inner voice and you are going back to what makes you you and know, listening then to where that might lead you. And I think, you know, to say that there was a personal connection there, I think I chose Emily because, I mean, I think I'd only met you like once, years and years ago when you were in your first incarnation with iGaming when you were at Calvin Air Media, right? And, and... And so I'd seen your stuff on Facebook and I thought I like her, I like what she says. And so I knew there was already a personal collection. And that was very important because I think unless there's that, we were sort of matched, I hesitate to say spiritually, but on that level. So she could take me down paths that I was comfortable going, if you see what I mean. Claire Adamou (21:42) Yeah. Wade (21:42) And I like the fact that think though she can adapt to whoever she's working with. That worked for me, you know, but I think she can adapt to whoever that she's working with. Emily (21:51) I feel just like a little self-conscious that we're like here talking about like what I do, my art form or my skill or my profession. Thank you. Yes, I will endeavor to do that. I was practicing that in the moment, just kind of breathing through receiving and then couldn't help myself, but name it anyways. I think that, thank you for sharing that Roz. And it's interesting because another female, Wade (21:55) We will play. Well, own it Emily. Claire Adamou (22:02) Yeah. Wade (22:11) Thank Claire Adamou (22:11) Yeah. Emily (22:18) that I've worked with in the industry, Kelly Kehn who you both know and has done some really incredible things. She said something very similar that, you know, it's hard work. It's like we think about like, I'm gonna work with a coach and I'm gonna like change my life and I'm gonna. Wade (22:33) Now you tell me what to do. Emily (22:35) I'm just going to tell you what to do. Kelly said the same thing too. I think I went to Em looking for the answers. think I thought she was going to tell me what to do. And I like, well, and I love that you also said it's hard. can be hard to put into words because truly what we're creating is an experience, right? In a powerful coaching relationship, it's an experience that one goes through and growth is really an experience. And so to articulate that can be challenging at times to describe what that experience, that process and that growth looks like. Wade (22:41) Yeah. Emily (23:04) to really cheesy and there's a quote that comes to mind when you said that and when I've heard Kelly share a little bit about the work that we've done together. By the way it's beautiful on the other side it's totally that the pain and the growth is all worth it. Usually. Usually. 99 % of the time. But the quote is, in order for a seed to achieve its maximum expression it is planted in darkness, it's shell cracks, Wade (23:15) Yeah, exactly. Emily (23:29) its insides come out of itself. And to one that doesn't understand growth, it would look like complete destruction. Claire Adamou (23:37) I never heard that but I like it gave me goosebumps. I'm like, yeah. Emily (23:41) It's true, right? We don't know this, darkness that we're planted in sometimes, or yeah, literally our insight. Wade (23:47) Well that's a bit of a theme, mean I was almost going to say when you said it was gloomy here, I like you need the gloomy days who can appreciate the sunny days and likewise you know you need the shitty times frankly, so you can appreciate the good times and you know I'll never forget like that metaphor you told me about the buffalo as a bison. Emily (24:07) Yeah. Wade (24:08) Well, either ones, you know, that run into the storm because they get through the storm quicker. And I shared that with a number of people since. They're like, yeah, I love it. You know, because yeah, there's going to be storms and, God, sometimes they last a long time, but like, you know, that after the storm, will be blue skies and sunshine, right? Emily (24:27) So shall I tell the story then for those that, yes, okay. So the story goes that where the Rocky Mountains meet the Kansas plains in the United States, of which none of us are American by the way, but you know, American parable nonetheless, here we go. Some wisdom dropping from the US. Wade (24:29) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hopefully. Emily (24:46) The storms will often crest over the, from the West traveling East over the Rocky Mountains. And the story goes that there's something to be learned for how both the bison or the buffalo, same thing, different name as far as I know, where the bison and the cows, there's something to be learned with how they both deal with storms in this terrain. So typically when the storms travel from the west to the east, the cows see the storm coming and they will start running east, away from the storm. But what inevitably happens is the storm catches up with the cows and they start running with it, prolonging their pain and suffering. The bison see the storm come across the crest of the Rocky Mountains. And as soon as it hits the plains, the bison will run through the eye of the storm. Wade (25:34) Thanks a lot. Emily (25:35) To get through to the other side as fast as possible, minimizing their pain and suffering. So it's also kind of funny to just ask yourself, like, do you want to be the cow or do you want to be the bison? can you, know, can you endeavor to take those storms head on and minimize your pain and suffering knowing that they're going to come, you know, or do we want to. Yeah, I've had literally life-changing conversations. Literally life-changing conversations bringing that metaphor into my Claire Adamou (26:05) Can I tell you something I heard yesterday? It's not anything to do with cows, bison or buffaloes. But for me, changed the way that I was feeling and the way that I am going to use it moving forward. So I had a session with my own coach yesterday and I just said to him, I feel like some things are a little bit chaos. Like my life is great. I feel really happy, right? I've got... Not a lot to complain about. People can complain, but there's not really a lot. but sometimes I feel like life takes over, takes over me and takes control of me rather than me over my life. Or I feel like I've got too many things changing at one time. Right. Maybe a bit like you, Roz, that came back, you know, and things in England were changing and COVID was happening. And he said to me, Claire, your life is just under construction. And I went, And it made me pause. And I thought, it is under construction because it's not stopped. There's no devastation. It's under construction. Things are happening and the building blocks are coming together in place for the great things that I want to achieve. And so rather than me feeling like I'm not getting anywhere or it's you know, my life is taking control of me or it's a bit chaos, I suddenly thought, actually, the things that are changing are just under construction right now. And it's brick by brick to get me to, you know, the completion. And for me, that that completely changed my mindset yesterday. And I thought I have to share this somewhere. Someone has to hear it because I loved it. Emily (27:41) It's the power of perspective, right? Like to me, hear construction can be like there's some chaos and there's some, yeah, rebuilding and there's some growth and there's some, but that doesn't, construction doesn't mean that things are falling apart. Construction doesn't mean destruction, right? Claire Adamou (27:44) Yeah! No, yeah, Wade (28:02) it. Emily (28:02) What a beautiful Claire Adamou (28:02) yeah. Emily (28:02) mentor. He sounds like such a great coach, by the way. Every time we drop a little bit, I'm so glad you're working with somebody great, because it makes all the difference when you work with a great coach. Claire Adamou (28:05) Yeah, it's a great time. Yeah, as Ross did with you. Emily (28:14) Well, I'm glad that that worked out. Wade (28:15) Yeah. Emily (28:17) Ros and have you share a little bit of just about like your own. spiritual journey, your yoga journey, your mindfulness meditation, this you know Eastern philosophy if you will, the way that that's been woven into your life. Can you just tell us a little bit, give us some insight in terms of you know where did that show up in your life and how has it supported you particularly through perhaps some of the more challenging times? Wade (28:39) Thank you. Yeah, you know, golly, I think I'm having a hard time answering because it's not a big enough part of my life at the moment, you know, and so I'm sorry, hang on, I've got the puppy wondering where his dinner is, sorry. Yes, dear, hold on. Emily (28:53) Okay, so now you're feeling like, I can't talk. Wade (28:59) So it first came into my life, I first went to yoga class with my mom in the UK and then when I first moved to Hong Kong, I started doing yoga and had a teacher who I'm still in touch with, Sharanya, her name was, and just fell in love with yoga and honestly, I won't exaggerate to say I think it saved my life in that, you know, in some tangible and intangible ways, I think, you know. It's sort of magic in that, yes, it does great things for you physically, but it's more about the sort of quiet internal magic of yoga that changes you gradually without noticing almost. And it changes your attitude. It changes your awareness about things, awareness about things about yourself, about other people, about the world, et cetera. So I wasn't vegetarian, but like, you know, and... very bad vegetarianism, I don't really like vegetables. So thought, well, if I have to become vegetarian, what on will I eat? But so it took me a few years to take that leap. And that's just really more of a personal choice than it is yoga. But I think it did derive from, you know, a greater awareness of what needs to happen, obviously, for you to be enjoying that juicy steak or whatever it is. And how has it formed my life? think... I've always been lucky. I thought I would want to do it full time. So eventually I wanted to do it because I thought if I was going to have a family it would be a really great thing to be able to fall back on and be able to do more of a part-time type thing. I've done a couple of teacher training courses which I've loved and which has deepened my practice but also learnt more about yoga philosophy as well. And I suppose that, you know, I think probably Eastern philosophy has informed my world outlook. And then of course, living in Asia, you can't really avoid but be influenced by that as well, whether it's Buddhism, know, Hinduism or other. But I think I mentioned it when I was just recently in Thailand and there's a gentleness and a sort of, you know, know, courtesy in their dealings with people there. And I wonder whether I would have been the same person if I hadn't lived in Asia or if I hadn't done yoga. Do know what I mean? Like maybe I'd be really horrid. And I don't know. We don't know, do we? But I think certainly it's always been there. as a support and there's always, know, when life's a mess, when you're uncertain about things, you can always go back to the mat. And that's just always been something that has been a savior for me. Yeah, it's been back to the mat. Sometimes you forget, sometimes you drift away from it for a while, but it all, you know, you always come back to it. And I try and make sure I go on at least kind of one yoga, like retreat. or holiday a year, not going to the Thailand one anymore now, because they've stopped that, which was amazing. But there's lots of other lovely places. So, yeah, I think it's really important. I can't underestimate really the sort of impact that it's had in my outlook, in my beliefs, in how I relate to the world. Claire Adamou (32:11) Are there any other sort of learnings that you have taken away from working in the Asian market that perhaps you wouldn't have had insight, you know, working in the UK market, for example, you you mentioned there's a little bit of a softness about the Asian culture and obviously coming from being a British woman and then going to work in Asia, sort of how Is there any learnings that you can share for anyone that thinks, know, gaming or non-gaming, anybody that's thinking about, you know, it's a really interesting territory, they love the culture, they, you know, what are your biggest sort of learnings or your biggest takeaways from your experience? Wade (32:54) Yeah, mean, again, difficult to summarize, but I remember when I first moved to Hong Kong, and yes, it was a massive cultural change. And I think what was most valuable from that first time around is that I was in a minority. So, you know, being white female, middle class, you know what I mean, never been in really a minority before. And yet we really were because, you know, expats only made up about 2%. And certainly there was a sense of being in a privileged position and that not being particularly great from perhaps their point of view. So all of those learnings and then you learn, oh, well, if you're in China, you have to do this with etiquette wise and things like that and the sort of business etiquette things. But more generally, I think Asia, you have to be a bit more patient. Like you can't rush things and you can't, you know, they don't like people bullying them or, and especially maybe not a foreigner. Things don't happen as quickly. Yeah, and then, you know, I was always envying people who put together events in Europe or elsewhere. I'm like, God, it must be so easy. Like, you ask people and they say yes. Whereas Asians, which is not good at public speaking, at putting themselves above the parapet, so, so hard to get, you know, any good Asian speakers to say yes. and particularly a female Asian speakers I think as well has always been a bit of a personal mission of course, know, really hard. So there's those things and I think just, yeah, I guess an appreciation of other cultures and then coming back to the UK realizing... frankly how racist everybody was. You know, just I think this was probably more in the 90s, I'm going back to, but just in the way that are, you know, casual humor, jokes, you know, the way they refer to people. I was like, God, like God, you know, so I think having, you know, having a sort of exposure to other cultures makes you a bit more aware of differences and that, you know, one way is not more right than another. Claire Adamou (34:56) Yeah, yeah, I love that. Thank you. And I wonder whether that, that quieter, softer, gentle, slightly slower to make decision, you know, it can be frustrating, right? You need a decision and it's like, we don't work like that. Mix that in with your yoga, you know, the walks with the pup and everything, all of that have contributed to this kind of calmer mindset and Wade (35:03) No, ⁓ Claire Adamou (35:19) you know, reducing the stress in your life. I wonder if all of that's, you know, so many learnings to be had from that for people that are a little bit more in the Western world and working at a, I want it yesterday kind of pace. Emily (35:34) You Ros alluded to it a little bit earlier, just in saying, you know, talking about the events in Asian too, where, you know, you didn't use the distinction system one system to mind. But, when we think about the distinction system, one system to mind as it relates to decision-making. and I feel like I always get them messed up, but you know, one of them is that, you know, you're sitting in front of your computer screen and you're trying to find the answer right then and there. like, you know, writer's block, for example, and like you're staying in the same environment with the same perspective, trying to solve the problem. you know, with the same view, whereas we can cultivate, which I believe is system to mind, which involves creating awe-inducing experiences, awe-inducing settings that allow... sub an unconscious mind to actually find and arrive at decisions that we need to make or be resourceful in ways that we wouldn't be able to when we're just like sitting right in front of the computer screen and like, you know, trying to force it out of us. So kind of talking, I was sort of thinking that earlier, Roz, in terms of like what you're endeavoring to create in some of, you know, these events and experiences and networkings and as it kind of related to that right now. Wade (36:16) Thank Yeah. Yeah, you put that more professionally than I could have. But yes, flow I think is important and patience generally in your life. just, sometimes not always grasping I think, and that's very much a yoga thing. And you know, some people may not understand that, and they may be like, well, what's the end goal? What's the end goal? You know, and I'm like, well, maybe I don't have an end goal. Maybe like, I'm just going to do this and see what happens. Do know what I mean? So, you know, a bit counterculture for that, you know, from that point of view. Emily (37:10) I'm all for it. You might look at some of the ways that I operate inside of Saroca and people might be like, do you think that's like the best business advice or do you think, you know, whatever it is. And one of those is like, again, I'm not saying that we don't have, you know, targets that we want to hit and that we're after. Wade (37:21) And take our advice. Emily (37:27) leader also weave in my own belief and that honoring of that cyclical nature around nothing grows all year round. So we'll see. Again, we're two years in. If we make it another three, then I know we did something right. Five years is my goal. Well, I mean, and beyond, but let's get to the five is the next benchmark as far as I'm concerned. All right. we get Roz with some iGaming OGs. Wade (37:40) Yeah. the claw. Claire Adamou (37:48) ⁓ Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, Roz, we're going to ask all of our iGaming OGs the same questions because we want to see your perspective. So with over a decade in the industry, how have you seen the role of women in gaming evolve and what changes do you hope to see moving forward? Wade (38:00) Thank Okay. Clearly from my beginnings, as I mentioned before, there were very few women in the industry. Now I can't say that was a drawback, honestly, because it meant that he got quite a lot of attention. I don't mean attention in a sort of unwelcome sense, but just that, yeah, there was less sort of competition, if you like. You stood out more, put it that way, but stood out more maybe. And... you know, doesn't hurt or didn't hurt if you put it, if you see what I mean. And then women were very much and certainly in Asia, you know, the assistants, the ones on the stands and I'm afraid, you know, there are a few years behind Europe and the States in terms of what is permissible and not permissible in public from a dress code point of view. I mean, there's no nakedness anymore like there used to be, but. Emily (39:01) Body pain, mean, it be covered in body pain. Wade (39:04) Yeah, right. yeah, anyway. So there's that, which is disappointing, honestly, when you can still see that happening. And how that's changed is that, well, I mean, I think, as I said before, not just in Europe, but I think I've become more aware of it in Europe, and maybe because of our own kind of CEO's group and all of that, you know, there seems to be much more of a community and so many more women, I think, much more women entrepreneurs. One thing I've noticed doing the sort of spotlight on the women in gaming is that a lot seem to be in the responsible gaming space. So either regulators or, you know, consultants or lawyers or whatever in that space. So yay, women leading that charge. And just more of them and more brilliant ones. you know, just, so what would I like to see happen? I mean, then maybe there isn't a conversation about this. I mean, why do we have to say women this and women that? It should just be like, well, can't we just get there already? And it's just people. Emily (40:02) I resonate with that so much. I mean, we talk about this all the time. It's like, have this love hate with the American women. It's like, we're so under-Tampion women. And then I'm like, and why are we consistently highlighting the anyways, which we could do a whole other podcast episode on that. And I'm writing that idea down. Yeah. Wade (40:06) Really? there's only just really sort of come to me, but... When you were there! Claire Adamou (40:19) Okay, and the last question was, what advice would you offer to individuals aspiring to enter the gaming industry? Wade (40:28) I'm I mean, I think, I don't know, are there people who want to enter the guy gaming industry? mean, do people know that it's a career and they go, yeah, I want to do that? I don't know, it may be more in affiliate space. Emily (40:38) I literally had a conversation this morning, maybe a little bit different, but with one of my dad's former clients, his daughter is graduating tomorrow from NYU with a 3.8 GPA in game design and has done some work with Mafia Games before and another game provider in Turkey has her eye on. Rockstar Gaming in New York. So, yes, apparently there are, Roz. There are people who are really graduating with a 3.8, right? And endeavoring to get it. Wade (41:06) Yes, that's what I wanted to say. And then because I don't have any young people, I don't know what young people are going through right now. So advice, mean, you know, probably have a look. mean, LinkedIn is always a great place to start. So I would start by, you know, having a look at which companies I admire and liking what they do in this space and then approaching them to see what roles they might have available. Understanding what roles there are. There's so many, I mean, from the affiliate side of things, you know, tech and sort of marketing is your thing, you know, to, you know, obviously the development side of things, design and development. to other marketing roles, things like that. So there's so much to choose from. And I think it's a great industry, as in it's fun. I hope it's supportive. And I think the more females in it actually helps that, for sure, I think. And teaching men what it should look like as well, perhaps being supportive. Yeah, so I mean, you know, it's a great industry. Why not? Claire Adamou (42:09) Thank you so much. Emily (42:11) Well, that concludes our time with the beautiful Ros Wade Thank you for joining us today, my dear. And thank you all for listening to this episode of Saroca Speaks. We will be back really soon. Thank you for joining us. We hope that today's episode supported your mind and your career. And we're here with our door is always open. So feel free to reach out to us on socials. We would love to hear from you and we will see you next time. Ciao for now. Wade (42:39) Bye.