Stop Rearranging Furniture. The Hard Truths About Change.

Emily (00:19) What's up everyone? This is Emily, your host of Saroca Speaks and I am here with my beautiful co-host. Claire Adamou (00:27) It's Claire. Emily (00:28) And we have a very special guest joining us today. I will give some context in a moment, but I will let him introduce himself. Welcome to Saroca Speaks' Adam Quiney. Hello. Hello. Adam, welcome. Tell us, tell our audience a little bit of who you are and I will give some context as to who you are for me. But before I take any words out of your mouth, why don't you just give us a little introduction and... Adam Quiney (00:39) Hi. Hello. Emily (00:55) What would you like us to know about you as we dive into our conversation today? Adam Quiney (00:59) Let's see. I'm a man living in Victoria, British Columbia on the West coast of Canada. I'm executive coach, transformational coach and leadership consultant. And I've been in this work for about 15 years. then, geez, I mean, it's impossible to introduce yourself, right? I've got two dogs. They're both Boston Terriers, very well-dressed dogs. I've got a lovely wife that I've been married to for 22 years or something like that. And I don't know, that's enough of me talking about myself for now. Emily (01:23) That's fair. did put you on the spot a little bit. Let me give some more context because it was always easier, I think, for someone else to introduce you, especially someone that holds you in such a high regard. So who Adam Quiney is for me is a former coach of mine. I think that's probably what stands out the most. But I would also say a dear friend now, one that we don't necessarily see as often, but we do live in the same city. But ironically, we met in London, Claire, ironically. Adam Quiney (01:46) Mm-hmm. Emily (01:49) for the very first time at a coaching intensive. And we're kind of working adjacent in the same sort of coaching work, if you will, of another individual for a couple years. And as a part of that gentleman's leadership team, Adam was leading us in a group as a group of leaders. And I remember Adam so gently and lovingly, but kind of in his like, might I say like challenger way really called me out on some stuff in front of the group in terms of the way I was showing up. And what I learned in that moment was the way that I showed up in groups. in that moment, I just knew like that this was somebody that I needed to work with and we're gonna get it into all of that. But that gives a little bit of context to who we are. But this podcast episode is for anybody that is into coaching, anyone that is fascinated by the industry, anyone that has been touched by the industry, anybody that is looking to enter the coaching industry. And truly, if you are just looking to be inspired by the stories of what this work can do, this episode is for you. And so if we can start, Adam, I would love for you to share a little of your journey into the industry 15 years ago. You are actually in law school and you became a lawyer and then transitioned into this work. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey? Adam Quiney (03:07) Mm hmm. Yeah, it all started with arrogance, which is kind of like pithy sounding, but 100 % true. And so what was happening was I was in law school, I was super clear. That's a really interesting study and not not a career I wanted to be in. And there was like a whole bunch of flags. But the biggest one was that every lawyer I talked to none of them really felt like they loved their job. Emily (03:25) Thank you. Adam Quiney (03:29) They felt like they could articulate why they ought to like their job a very good deal. So sort of like a lawyer explained to a judge why they should like their job. And I'd go like, well, do you love your job? And they go, well, here's the thing, Adam. And I'd be like, that is a sucky answer already. Like, I don't want you to lawyer your way through this question. So I was looking for other careers as I was going through law school and still committed to finishing and writing the bar and all that, which I did. but, I looked at speaking, I eventually found someone who was a coach, a former lawyer who was also a coach and talk to them. And, know, there's more detail I can expand on there if we feel called to go that way. But what I'll say is I heard about what he did. And then, he told me, you know, like the cool thing about this job is having a conversation with someone and setting them a light and, know, like on fire he was saying like, if you can set other people alight, then what will happen is they'll set other people around them alight and you know, slowly you're, you're making the world a more fiery place, a more alive place. And I was like, that's cool, because I'm already set alight. And so, and I've always wanted to this anyhow. So I'll just go and naturally be my fire starter self, I guess, and set people on fire. And really what was happening internally was that I had this belief that I figured out how to do life the right way. My life is well put together. I'm organized. It's all sorted and that's the correct way to live your life. And so I'll meet with other people and teach them how to live like me. Nevermind the fact that, my life at this point looked like me coming home on a Sunday night, rooting through the ashtray on my patio, trying to find a roach to get stoned. because I'd sworn off pot for like the 58th time and yet was deep in the throes of addiction. You know, let's not talk about that. Tell me more about your life and I can help you with what you're struggling with and all of that stuff. So on the outside, I presented this really, really polished, put together, perfect image. And then on the inside, I was just a disaster. Maybe not a disaster, but there's just like a whole bunch of stuff that I was unwilling and unable to look at. um, So I can talk more from there, but that gives you a bit of like the taste of how I found my way. That's what was going on when I initially found my way into this work. Emily (05:38) this is my own curiosity in terms of your story. Was he your introduction to AC? And for those people that don't know AC is accomplishment coaching and the training program that Adam came up through. not your introduction. So that was simply your introduction just to the coaching world. Adam Quiney (05:52) That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So what happened was I this coach, God bless him, said, you know, get training, which I didn't like because I thought, I've always been this person. Why should I have to get training? And he said, hire a coach because if you're if like this work only works if you're consuming the medicine. So you better like coaching. And I was like, OK, well, I guess I'll do that. It's a dumb thing, but I'll do it. And. So I did those things and I would bring stuff to my coach, like help me be less stressed out about my exams, which wasn't really a big issue. Like sure, I could always use a little more help with that, but that wasn't really a problem. The problems were stuff that I didn't even, I couldn't even acknowledge them as a problem for myself. So there was no, like I couldn't bring it to him. And I would say he didn't really have the capacity to point to the fact that I was kind of bringing issues that allowed me to skirt around the real vulnerability. Is that making sense? Emily (06:42) Yeah, a hundred percent. Well, I think this is like the beauty of what real coaching is, right? Is people that kind of read between the lines and when people come to work with us for one particular thing, that's usually not the thing that you end up working on, right? It's what's in the way of that thing, of doing that thing. Adam Quiney (06:47) Yes. Yes. Emily (06:58) All right, so I want to give a little context to this thought process that I have around coaching. sort of think about it a little bit like almost like Buddhism in a sense, where there are different lineages of coaching. This is like, this is my own personal philosophy. You know, nobody has to subscribe to it. I'm not committed to being right or wrong about it. And for me, I believe like I sort of came up in like what I would call like the lineage of coaching of ontology. So ontology is what we call this, the study of being. And for those of you that may or may not know, you know, I consider myself a second generation transformational leader. And in the 1980s, my dad worked with a guy named Werner Erhard, who is essentially the guy known for coining the term of ontology and was really this movement in how to bring support, like coaching into the workplace. And there was this movement behind that. Adam Quiney (07:23) You Emily (07:49) around what it sort of meant to bring ontology to the workplace. So when I met Adam, he had read some of Werner's books and was probably, other than my dad, the person that I had ever met that knew the most about ontology and Werner's work. So that was really fascinating for me. so Adam, I'd love if you would tell us a little bit about, like, if you had to describe kind of ontology or Werner's work. You know, what has it done for you? How has it impacted you? And how did you find Werner? Adam Quiney (08:18) Hmm. Well, let me start if I could interrupt me if you like, but I want to give like a really salient example so people get a sense of this idea of ontology. And so most of us know people and can probably relate and probably maybe even are this person who have a to do list of items and they're frantically checking everything off on that to do list because they've had a long day of or a long week of work and they're stressed and they want to not be stressed. They want peace. So they're checking every item off this list because once they get through it, then I can take a break. Then I can breathe. Then I can feel good. And on the surface that makes like from the level of doing that makes complete sense. You've got the list. The list is creating stress because it's a series of unopened loops or, unclosed loops, rather things that you need to get done, check them off. Then you'll feel peace. But if we look at this at the level of what we would call ontology, which is to say, who is this person being throughout? Emily (08:47) See you then. Adam Quiney (09:07) What we start to notice is that they're being stressful, harried and frantic, and they're hoping that through that, that way of being, they're going to arrive at being peaceful. And when we start to see it through that lens, we're like, well, that's never going to work. That's crazy. Like at best you're going to get some short term kind of brief moment, but the whole system then becomes in order for me to be peaceful. have to be stressful and harried. That's the game that we ended up locked in. And then it's just like, my God, what am I doing? So I like that because it helps, it helps me sort of understand this thing that sounds very fancy and Greek big wordy. And instead just like, got it. Yeah. There's a thing. There's a layer below what we're doing on the surface that helps us see things a little more deeply. So I got into this work firmly believing Werner Erhart was a leader of a cult and that landmark forum was a giant call and very opposed to it. And I didn't find like I didn't find my way into this. This work through him. I found it as a sort of last kick at the can. I was very disillusioned with coaching and I felt like, I'm pretty sure there's no there there. I'm pretty sure that coaching is a bunch of feel goodery and cheerleading and people talking about breakthroughs, but really it's just you pretending that you're feeling good about what you used to feel crappy about and all of that stuff. And I was pretty certain I was going to go back to law school and I took one last kick at the can, went and talked to this woman. my mom, of all people had put me in touch with, and she suggested like, I think I've got a program you might be interested in. She didn't convince me to do anything, but there was something about the conversation with her that was really viscerally pulled for me. It pulled me towards it and through that program, it transformed my life completely changed my life. It let me get at that thing that I was saying the previous coach I'd worked with, just we couldn't touch together. And it, I discovered quite by surprise that program was ontological, which I didn't know what that meant. And I didn't know, I didn't care that it was landmark related or any of that stuff. I was just like, this has changed my life. This rules and We got about two months into this year long program and which had already made a huge difference to me. And one of the women was like, yeah, like I really, you know, I'm excited for the personal transformation. And, you know, I did landmark and that was really great. And I was really concerned and was like, well, geez, I'm, really worried about that. And, through a whole bunch of conversations, what I started to see, as I got to look at myself was that I had become a person. Emily (11:17) And that was Adam Quiney (11:33) who was deeply skeptical of the world and went into the world looking for how I was going to be taken advantage of. And it's sort of like if you go around the world wearing a suit of armor, you're going to find your way into a fight. And so I would find my way into situations where I was going to be taken advantage of. And then I could be skeptical and destroy those people and blah, blah, blah, blah. So that was this sort of entry point into Werner's work. Emily (11:41) and say it's So thank Claire Adamou (11:55) this actually is the first time that I've met Adam as well. And Emily, can, get into a little bit more detail and depth about yours and Adam's history and how you've worked together in the past. But Adam, just to share with you, and I shared this with Emily recently, that I have had a life coach. I think I started working with him December. Emily (12:10) And thank Claire Adamou (12:17) maybe January, I went to an osteopath and was having really bad headaches, like constant headaches all the time. And he said, tell me about your life. I reeled off all this stuff and he's like an osteopath, but also an energy healer. And he put his hands on my head and was like, holy crap, Claire, this is a lot going on. And the speed at which I'm talking and all this stuff. so anyway, he said, I'm working with a life coach or one of my clients is a life coach. I really think you should talk to him. Adam Quiney (12:29) Ha Emily (12:34) So, yeah. Claire Adamou (12:43) So I'm like, yeah, okay, like practice what you preach. hadn't had a coach for quite some time. So I was like, sure, I have an introduction call with him, had a call with him. And it turns out that he has trained with Landmark. And so when I was telling Emily some of the things, some of the work that we do in these conversations about like, well, who are you being? Who are you being in this? And really like, pushing me to that place that's, like you say, it's not just surface level, right? It's like, what are your drivers? How are you thinking? Who are you being? How are you showing up? Like, what is the cause of that? Like, keep going down, like peeling like an onion. So I love that you're talking about this and kind of your experience in the training as well, because I'm working with somebody that has, you know, is transforming me in the way that I show up as sort of as a... a coach, a parent, a wife, a human being, you know, it is transforming the way that I am showing up. So I feel like I'm also living and breathing the work that obviously you have trained in and your experience as well. I just wanted to let you know, I find this whole conversation really fascinating. Emily (13:51) I was excited to bring that loop in, you know, further context. Claire was sharing some of the work she's up to. I'm like, this guy sounds like a really great coach, you know? And it was like, it was one of those times I can think of like the first coach that I ever worked with, Michaela O'Connor, she made a tremendous difference for me. And I was like, oh, this is what coaching is all about. By the way, also, she also did landmarks. So say what you want people, but all the best coaches have done some version of ontology in my opinion. Claire Adamou (13:54) Yeah. Adam Quiney (13:55) Love it. Claire Adamou (13:59) You Adam Quiney (14:04) Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Claire Adamou (14:10) Mm-hmm. Emily (14:18) In my humble opinion, I might say. And I was really excited to just bridge that gap because I could almost see and like I could feel the palpable work that was happening. And it wasn't until Claire had shared maybe two or three different conversations that the guy had shared, like, you know, not only was he a trained coach, but that he had gone through landmark education as well. So of course, landmark is in the end all BL, but I do want to say that it is a tremendous foundation in the work of ontology. And perhaps maybe a little bit more on that, Adam, maybe there's two concepts that I'd love for you to describe or explain, distinctions that I'd love for you to explain for our audience, because I just think you do it so eloquently. One is this concept of being at cause, which we've both just, or we've all just sort of named. And the other is this concept of a racket. And I think... Adam Quiney (15:05) Mm-hmm. Emily (15:05) to really transformational tools and distinctions. And I wonder if you might enlighten us on some of those as they relate to sort of this lineage of coaching and some of the really transformational distinctions that I think can truly change lives. Adam Quiney (15:09) Hmm. Mm Yeah, I'd love to. So being, you know, at causes often contrasted with at the effect and the the colloquial way those are referred to is being responsible versus being a victim. There's a problem with like you'll find sometimes we have to create new language because the old language we have to refer to this stuff has a lot of baggage and the trouble, the danger is that cults do the same thing. But they create new language because it isolates and it makes you a part of this segregated group. And then you're, you know, victim to their control or you're at the effect of their control. So nevertheless, at a risk of introducing some jargon here at cause is this idea that like, am the cause to create what I want in the world. And at the effect means it sounds sort of like, I would, I would love to go to England one day, but, then insert whatever you want after that, but I just don't make enough money, but. The flights are hard to book, but I've got all of these things in my schedule. And so what we're saying is we are at the effect of the world around us. The life that we want to create is at the effect of our circumstances, of people, of whatever it is. So I am not the one that causes my life. My surroundings are. And to be at cause means that I cause what I want to create regardless. Or maybe a better way to put it would be like, not withstanding what my circumstances are. So even though flights are very expensive, I'm going to go to England within the next year. And when I adopt that internal stance, that shifts the way I show up and meet the world. So instead of seeing, the flights are really expensive. I guess I won't do this thing. My stance is, wow, flights are really expensive. And yet I am committed to doing this thing. So what must I do? What do I need to make happen? Who do I need to talk to? And when we take that internal stance, it kind of calls us forward past the threshold of our fear. Being at the effect is really comfortable because, I'd love to go to England, but flights are really expensive, so I won't. And that means that I don't have to do what might be scary. Like say, well, I'm going to have to ask my family for money. I'm going to have to get a second job, or I'm going to have to... do whatever I have to do to make this thing happen. So it's, it's not about when people hear this, they often get defensive for their own at at effectiveness, or get almost like the big the what can come into place is sort of like almost like a form of victim blaming where we start to point to other people and be like, you shouldn't be at the effect of your circumstances. And the really important thing about this distinction is, it's entirely chosen inside. Emily (17:43) and say. Adam Quiney (17:50) It's not better to be at cause and worse to be at effect. It's not right or wrong. It doesn't, there's no one thing you should be or one thing you shouldn't. All we notice is that when we adopt the internal stance of being the cause for what we want to create, it opens up more possibility. And then from that place, I have new options. And so in coaching, we're working to support people to come from that place and to distinguish and move out of the way the stuff that the ad effect place. Emily (18:15) ⁓ Adam Quiney (18:18) Anything you want to any paprika you want to put on that? You want me to talk about this idea of the other distinction you mentioned? Emily (18:20) I think what I'll share there is, you know, we often talk about the difference between like a commitment versus an intention, you know, and really owning like, you know, if you want to look and see what you're really committed to, look at the results that you've created in your life. And I think that that's the, you know, that is just maybe a further distinction that I think really helps people in this distinction between, you know, at cause or effect is, you know, really, if you are committed, it's like, Adam Quiney (18:38) Mm-hmm. Emily (18:47) commitment is that stake is in the ground and you know, as William Hutchinson Murray says, then Providence moves to right and all sorts of things begin to happen because you are truly committed. You would give your left arm, whatever it takes like this is absolutely coming to fruition. Whatever is required, I will rise to the occasion. And that's very different than having an intention or you know, your intention, you know, being shaped by your mood or how you feel in the moment. So that's really the you know, just a further I think. Adam Quiney (18:57) Yes. Emily (19:15) sprinkling that I might say. So let's get into this concept of rackets. This is one that I don't often bring up in, I think, into my work enough. That's maybe sort of embedded in my subconscious, but not one that I'm bringing out into the world enough, I think. So educate us on this distinction of what is a racket. I might, sometimes I think I refer to it as more like the human condition, which is the desire to want to be right and to look good. Adam Quiney (19:20) You Mm-hmm. Emily (19:40) at its core, describe for us a little bit in more detail on what is this distinction of a racket. Adam Quiney (19:45) Mm And you'll have to forgive me because I'm not trained through landmark and racket is their distinction. So I'll do my best. I work with similar ideas, but I'm not putting myself out there as like a proponent or, you know, the one to describe exactly as it is. And further, I have a caveat about this. which I'll share in a bit. But the idea of a racket is basically sort of the name comes from like the old, you know, like days of speakeasies, the mobster times. Emily (19:48) Okay, go. Adam Quiney (20:12) where they'd have a racket, they'd be running a racket. on the front, they'd be running a bookstore, but in the back, they'd be selling, you know, bathtub gin, or they'd be running horse betting, racing, gambling, or, know, I don't know, whatever gangsters did, they did the stuff. So this idea of a racket is where this distinction comes from. And it's the idea that there's something I do almost like on the surface that purports to be about one thing, but then there's something else happening under the surface. And so the easiest way they say to find your rackets are to look at like your perpetual complaints, the things that you're ongoingly complaining about in your life. my, my wives are always narcissists, or my bosses never respect me, or, you know, so on and so on and so forth. We every single human being to your point Emily, like the human condition, we all have this, we can't escape it. And so sometimes Emily (20:54) and certainly with patient intervention we all have. Adam Quiney (21:02) If you're like me listening to this podcast, you might be like, huh, do I have rackets? I may be a small one over there, but I'm pretty sure wrong. You have rackets. And I can tell you that because you're listening to this podcast, which tells us you're a human. And that's that. So we all have it. We can't escape it. And the way it works is that whilst on the surface, I keep running into bosses that don't respect me below the surface. There's a payoff. There's a reason that I somehow keep. creating in the world this experience of working for bosses that don't respect me. So for example, maybe my internal story is that I'm not worthy, or maybe my internal story is that I'm not good enough, or people don't respect me. And so I'm naturally, unconsciously and unwittingly going to go into the world. I'm going to just not ask for the jobs or not go for the jobs where I would have to stand up for my own value, but then get to work with someone else that relates to me that same way. Instead, I find my way into another relationship with another boss who once again doesn't respect me, but that also is like a lock and key fit for my own internal dialogue. And that allows me not to have to stand up for myself. And there's the racket. If only my bosses were different, but inside it's like, but on some level now I don't have to stand up for myself. And that's, that's where confronting my fear would happen. And so that's kind of how a racket, an example of how a racket plays out. Emily (22:17) What's Coming to Mind is a great article by Gay Hendrix called Love, The Key to Love and Enlightenment, think, 14 of the most important pages you'll ever read. And I'm just putting it out there if anybody is listening to this and is more curious to read this article, which describes more in depth what Adam's talking about. While it doesn't refer to it as rackets, as the distinction, that article comes to mind and I'd be happy to share it if anyone wants to get in touch, I'll send it over. Peace. Adam Quiney (22:44) can I throw out the caveat now? The problem I find Landmark can be a bit pointed or sharp or unloving in its delivery is how, and that's not to say we need both love and rigor in the transformational work. And sometimes it's going to feel a bit harsh, but it's from love. But my experience is often Landmark can be kind of clumsy and a bit Emily (22:49) Yeah. Adam Quiney (23:04) blunt in its approach and the idea of a racket. It's a very short step for the part of ourselves that is blame based to take the idea of a racket and start blaming myself or other people for it because this idea of a racket gangster set that up on purpose. And the thing that I'm really present and alive to and a stand for is we're doing all of this innocently. We're not aware that we created this. We're not even it doesn't even occur to us like not We don't think about it. Even if you put this in front of us, we're going to argue that it's not a racket. so I really, the caveat I have to this idea of racket is that it's important we have grace and a lot of kindness for ourselves and really recognize like one, I'm this is being hidden from me as much as anyone else. And two, this was put together because it was absolutely essential. for me to get here. And if I want to break it up, that's going to be a process. Claire Adamou (23:55) it is definitely really interesting. And I think you are right. There's a lot of times where we it's like what do they call it like that self-fulfilling prophecy, right? And it's that loop you just can't get out of. And it's only when you face the facts and the reality and you go some it's almost like you get to that point and go something has to change. Now I'm ready to stop feeling this way or stop having these crappy bosses, you know, that don't respect me or don't value me. And I think we're all different, right? We all get to that stage. at different points in life. yeah, don't think there's, well, there is no right and wrong, right? But I wonder for the listener to just putting that out there at what, just to have that reflection and really see where is that narrative for you and where is the story coming up and have a little bit of reflection, have a look at, you know, what's showing up for you and where do you, where can you cut, like, where can you cut that and interrupt that? and go, right now's the time. I want something different for myself. So it was really, as you were talking, just thinking about as a listener, how that shows up for them and how could they interrupt that sort of narrative that's going on with them. Emily (25:05) Sometimes I wonder too, if it's not really a conscious choice, right? Like I think back to what I shared about, putting myself in an environment on a leadership team at a coaching intensive with Adam as my leader. I'm rightfully, I'm gonna tell a little story now about that, I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast. essentially I'm choosing to be in that environment, an environment that's supposed to be conducive to my growth and to becoming a better coach and all of these things. And I wasn't necessarily aware of in that moment that the work I needed or one piece of growth that was available for me was to be mindful of the impact that I have on groups and environments when, you know, in particular settings, like the impact that I have on them as opposed like, and really the distinction for me was when I'm showing up from a place of like, for my comfort, for my safety, doing what I need to do to like establish myself in the room as opposed to like more holding space or being attuned to, you know, what the greater good of the group is. Does that make sense? It's like where the attention was on myself is what sort of Adam had me realize was like my attention was on myself, not necessarily like on, you know, what really what I was there to do or I can't really quite explain it. But my point is that I didn't necessarily know Claire Adamou (26:10) Mm-hmm. Emily (26:23) that that was a growth edge that I had. And of course I'm open and willing and in an environment to learn, it kind of took, know, being in that environment allowed Adam the permission to be able to bring that to my attention, right? It wasn't like coaching without permission because given the context we were in, but it was something that I necessarily, I wasn't necessarily like awake to yet. Adam Quiney (26:37) hehe Emily (26:42) And I think that that sometimes is the most beautiful part of this work when you just decide that I'm going to take the leap and then you'll see what happens. And it's like what Roz said in her podcast, like I had no idea how much work it was going to be or what Kelly said. Like I thought Emily was just going to tell me what to do, the coaching industry in the sense of it being a little bit of the wild west. And I know that all of us have robust and formal training and you know, can we just talk a little bit about like the people that become like coaches overnight if you are going to work with somebody, you should be doing your due diligence and make sure that they have, you know, that they can, they can offer you the type of support that you're looking for. But what might you say, Adam, I'll start with you, Claire, I'd like your opinion too. What might you say to those people that, you know, maybe leave their senior leadership role and, and then, you know, just decide like, okay, well now I'm just going to be a coach without any formal training, without any, you know, in this unregulated industry. What, what, are some thoughts that you both have on that? I'm curious. Adam Quiney (27:39) Well, it's very heartbreaking for me because I care deeply about this work and I'm a real stand for you. let me digress briefly. would say the coaching profession and my experiences, maybe like 80, maybe 75 % fairly watered down, diluted. It's, it's nice. You have a bunch of nice conversations. You feel kind of better after them. There's no transformation. There it's all changed on the surface and it's super well intentioned. but it's sort of like just the work helps you rearrange the furniture in your apartment and you're gonna feel better for a while, because it's novel, it's new and it's different. And then the top 20 to 25 % is life-changing transferential magic. And it's heartbreaking for me because I really, love that magic is available. Our lives can transform that which we've concluded and long ago given up on and decided I just can't have that, you can And this magic, this work can help with that. It can support you to create that, but the public... Emily (28:17) That's all. Adam Quiney (28:32) generally experiences that bottom 80 to 75 % becomes disillusioned, becomes resigned, and then further gives up on their thing they want. And the real tragedy is they give up as a result of an experience of the very thing that's meant to support them to create it. it really, it really breaks my heart. And that being said, we all have our own path. And, you know, I would love to say a million things to those people. The the The most important thing I can say probably not so much to them is what's going to happen is they're going to come into this work with a very reliable way to generate success. That's going to step over probably most of the internal healing that they have to do because they're not working with their own coach. Generally, it's very rare. And so what they're going to do is they're going to turn around and help other people do the same thing, which is to say, create a whole bunch of results. whilst stepping over the internal healing that is there for them to do. And as a result, they'll get the life that sort of is a halfway there. I got all the results. And maybe if I just get a few more results, then I'll be happy, then I'll be fulfilled, then I'll feel peaceful, then I'll feel secure, etc, etc, etc. And so, boy, I wish those people would work with a coach. But what I've come to realize is that their journey is their journey. And they will not, I could scream that at them and have tried because I used to have way more fire and arrogance and anger from my heartbreak instead of just love and acceptance. And it doesn't matter because they have to discover for themselves that this isn't it doesn't work. And maybe they don't even discover that this lifetime, you know, maybe that's just they go through the karmic wheel one more time, two more time. And then their children are the ones that discover it. And then they heal this through their bloodline or whatever. And my work is to keep doing my work so that I can willingly allow myself to feel the impact of that thing that they're doing and let myself be heartbroken and bear that. Not from sort of like, I'm doing this for you, but more like this is the only way for me to fully meet the world from a place of acceptance is to just allow it to crush me and then get supported to heal and to let that sit. Because if we really let our hearts be open and face all of what the world is providing, Emily (30:16) you you Adam Quiney (30:37) It's devastating. And it's also beautiful and exciting and everything else. But it is there's a lot to be devastated by. And that's the work. And so to put a button on this, what I would say to those people, if they really wanted to hear what I had to say was, please, please, please take training and please hire a coach. Because what that's going to do is it's going to let you live an incredible life. And if you're living a truly incredible life, it's the people you are working with will get access to that as well. And until you start creating that for yourself by taking the medicine you want to sell, it just won't happen. Yeah. Emily (31:06) Claire, what are your thoughts? Claire Adamou (31:08) I mean, I don't know how to follow that. Wow. I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you say, Adam. And I think, you know, for me, I've wanted to be a coach for a really, really long time. And I just, you know, thought, okay. I had this like one second of, well, everyone does it. So how hard can it be? Right? It was that moment. And I'm like, No, that's not a coach. That's not a coach. Like how can you go coach other people without knowing all the theory and the distinctions and all of the things that the tools that we have that support the growth fully and to allow, like you say, someone to fully experience that transformation. And I just thought that's some Adam Quiney (31:34) You Emily (31:47) you Claire Adamou (31:54) that's somewhat of a mentor, right? If you're a leader, a manager, you know, person of seniority, you've got a lot of business experience that you can share. And that to me is mentorship, right? I can go and teach you and show you how I built my career. That's kind of mentorship. And I thought, I don't want to, I do want to be a mentor, but that's not the be all and end all. That's not my calling. I want to be a coach. I want to help people. transform their lives. I want them to be everything they want to be. And so I went back to school for a very hard two and a half years. And I cried in so many sessions, you would not believe. I cried like the work that I had to do myself to train to be a coach. I mean, you both know and Emma, we're going to come and ask you the same question, but I really had to to dig deep and face so much that was going on in my life. And at that time I had just left my husband. had, I think I'd just bought this house. I'd lived in my sister's garage for a year. My divorce was incredibly messy. I had fallen out with my parents and hadn't been talking to my parents. Towards the end of it, I stopped talking to my parents actually, but it was a very kind of toxic. relationship that we were going through, myself and my parents. And so there was so much that was coming up for me at that time that I had to work through. And I think if I hadn't have done that, how can I be the coach that I am without living and breathing the work and going through everything that I went through? And I'm so proud that I did that because I really do feel like now I can come to people and say, I've walked this journey and I know what this journey is like and I am formally trained and I will continue my education and continue to learn and grow and that's what it is as a coach to me. So yeah, it is for me, it is heartbreaking but it's, I'm a little bit more accepting, right? I have a little bit of a buffer where I'm like, this stuff goes on and I can't take on everything. Emily (33:37) Thank Claire Adamou (33:59) because it will consume me. And so I take on as much as I can handle. So I just think if that's, if you choose that coach that is not formally trained, they've just decided one day they're gonna be a coach, then that is your decision. And that is your journey for you to experience, right? Because I can't influence everybody. can't change as much as we all wanna change the world. We can change the world one person at a time. Emily (34:16) this. Claire Adamou (34:25) So that is my kind of opinion on that. Yeah, how about you? What are your thoughts around non-formally training? Emily (34:32) I definitely resonate with the heartbreak piece that rings true for me as well. Because again, I think, you know, all of us, sounds like have had those experiences of what it's like to work with a mediocre coach, you know, and like Adam said, maybe you feel good after there's like, you know, a small movement of the needle for a short period of time. But that is very different than being taken on a journey into like the depths of your being and your ways of being and your conditioning and your beliefs and all that you've bought into and, you know, the way that you show up to life, those commitments, you know, that we talked about and looking at whether or not you've created what you want in your life. So that really rings true for me, the heartbreak and... I think part of it, the other thing that came up when you were sharing for me, Claire, is I think it's also our job to educate people. think that's part of what we wanted to do with this podcast. I think that's, you know, the invitation that we have to, whether people are looking at receiving coaching or looking to become a coach or are claiming to be a coach or whatever it is, I think part of what we can do as a true stand for the actual transformational work, is be a stand for that transformation, but also to, to educate and in conversations like this. Claire Adamou (35:24) Mm. Emily (35:47) And I think lots of grace. Like, I think you both sort of alluded to that. Everyone's on their own journey and everyone's going to make their own decisions with where they want to invest their dollars, especially as it comes to their own personal or professional development. So make that investment wisely, I think. And rapport is really important. Yeah, that that that's I guess what I want to say about that. I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I grinds my fucking gears sometimes when I see this shit. But I will say that having done this work now for going on 12 years. And those people do not last. I have seen so many coaches come and go. I had a client that did a $10 coach training program online, right? Like I've had people, I've had a, you know, non-blood family member just come out and be like, I'm a coach and like made a coaching website that lasted about, I think six months. So like I, as much as it's heartbreaking and it grinds my gears, there's also a part of me that's like, get back and watch, get the popcorn and just watch that one play out. Adam Quiney (36:31) Damn. Emily (36:45) And I don't need to say that from like a righteous place, but I do say that from a place of like, really trust in my ability to create impact and to be a transformational leader and coach in the world. And I might not be the right fit for everybody, but I will be a stand for that work at all costs, especially if you work with me in that capacity. So that's my sort of two cents on that. What would you both say to anyone seeking to enter the coaching industry? So somebody that maybe is like, I'm going to be a coach or I am a coach. And maybe they haven't formalized that process or their offering or what, what would you say to some people that might be considering this as a career transition? we'll start with you. Adam Quiney (37:22) Hmm. Well, the first thing I would do is I would celebrate them. I would, I would tell them this, this work rules. Like it's just the best for me. It's the most amazing career. And like what I, what I love about this profession, people get it wrong all the time. They're like, it's, it's a lucrative profession. And then you kind of like the lifestyle seems kind of nice. The truth of this work is that it's about living a beautiful, rich life. Emily (37:44) Thank you. Adam Quiney (37:47) which includes hiring and committing to the kind of support structures that allow that coaches, et cetera. And then bolted onto the side kind of attached is like a lucrative profession. You can make a bunch of money if you want that's available, but like it's about living a beautiful life. So I love that. And, and it's a heartbreaking profession because you have to be willing to be devastated by love. That's the only way to truly love is if you're open heartbreak. So I would celebrate them. And then I would tell them the exact two things that that guy that that got me started on this journey told me, which is one, you don't have to get training. You don't have to get good training because not everyone does. Most people don't, but just because that's the case doesn't mean you should do it. Relate to this profession with reverence and hold it with the high kind of, you know, opinion that you would like others to. And so in service of that, get good training, get really good training that'll transform you rather than just teach you about transforming and hire a coach immediately. Even if you're paying $10 a month for that coach, start paying money, not a, not a trading coaching deal, like actually a paid coaching commitment with another coach so that you are consuming the product and that you are starting to learn what it's like to be coached because the most important thing in order to create clients. is that you have an understanding of the benefits that this work brings to you in your life. And the best way to get that understanding is to have the experience of it by working with your own coach. So get Claire Adamou (39:10) I think it is so rewarding. I think, you Adam talked about love and I think it really does fill my heart with joy and love. And, you know, I was a little bit worried coming in to the profession thinking, my God, you know, I've now feel like I've peeled back all these layers like an onion and I'm such an empath. And I'm like, my God, if my client brings something and they cry, I'm going to cry. I cried all through college and through my training. And I thought, no, that's what that I'm a human and that's okay. And it's okay to to feel what your clients feel and it's okay to, you know, feel all the feels. Yeah, yeah, it is. And so it is such a rewarding career. And it's one that I am Emily (39:45) You moved! It's okay when you move! Claire Adamou (39:54) deeply proud of and I'm sure you both are as well of the work that you do with your clients. But they really, for me, I couldn't have done this without the training and I couldn't be the coach I am without the training. And I think there's such a value in that. And I'm sure in the future there is going to be change. There has to be change, right? Over the regulation of coaching and everything. and having some sort of formalised training, or at least I hope there will be in the future. But go do it. Go walk the walk and talk the talk. Don't just talk the talk. That's my two cents on that. Emily (40:28) Yeah, you know. Claire Adamou (40:29) Mm. Emily (40:29) Please. Of course. Adam Quiney (40:30) Can I put something in on that formalized training part? Would that be all right? Claire Adamou (40:31) Yeah. Adam Quiney (40:33) I think without a doubt that's going to happen. They're going to, mean, the international coach federation is always already trying to like put more fences around it. I don't think it's going to make a difference. And the thing is that you can approximate, like the ego is always looking for a way to learn, like learn about riding a bike without having to run the risk of getting on the bike and falling off. And there will always, you know, we could be like, you have to have X amount of training. has to look this way. We're always going to be creating ways to do that thing I just described, right? So to learn about it rather than having to plunge in. so this isn't to take away from what you said, Claire, I really am with you, but I still think, you know, that something being set up external is never going to be a substitute for our internal commitment to like, want to bring to this profession, something truly profound. And it's the coaches that make that decision and then seek the training in alignment with that. And that make the commitment to work with their own coach. Those are the ones that will transform the world. And so if you want to be one of those coaches, yo, that's the work. Take that on. Claire Adamou (41:26) Yeah. But I'm not going to ask you the same question. Emily (41:27) Yeah. Claire Adamou (41:31) I'm going to ask you to share your experience of working with the incredible Adam and how, you know, how Adam's training, Adam's knowledge, Adam's life experience, everything that Adam brings to being a transformational coach. How has that, how was that working with him and how has that perhaps shaped who you are now, if I can be so bold. Emily (41:56) Yeah, sure. So I started again, so I met Adam at a coaching intensive of another coach of which we were both part of his community for a while. And as Adam leading the leadership team. So again, that was like my sort of initial experience of him. I actually thought Adam was super pompous at the first intensive that I ever met. wasn't he wasn't I was a participant. And ironically, his wife, was my leader of my group. I was not on the leadership team. was just a participant at this point. And we got to Hyde Park in London. This is where the whole intense where we're all meeting for the first time in the park. And I get, you know, matched up with Bay, Adam's wife. And I'm thinking, did they match us? Did they put me in your group? Because we both live in Victoria. Like we're here we are in London and we both live in Victoria, BC, Western Canada, like a town of half a million people. Adam Quiney (42:18) true. Emily (42:42) Um, so, and she's like, no, that was like totally random. So right away I'm like, oh, okay, cool. And then she points out like this guy's her husband. And I'm like, okay, cool. And then I'm like, that guy's seems like kind of an asshole. I was like, he's really like pompous. He's in his like, he's in his like bright blue suit and like, you know, I don't know if you were at this in your suit at Hyde park, but there is a way in which, you know, Adam is very noticeable in a room and can either, you know, rub you the wrong or the right way. And I was definitely rubbed the wrong way a little bit at first. It took me a little while. Adam Quiney (42:44) You Hahaha Emily (43:11) Adam was my leader on leadership team as we were, you know, supporting the facilitation of this coaching intensive called me out in a group for, know, whatever way I was showing up. I, and, as uncomfortable I'm like as it was, there was, there was way in which he just spoke, spoke in this like to, just really what was a deep truth, right? And I'm sure he doesn't get it right all the time, but he definitely got it right in that moment with me and was like, all right, there's something more to explore here. I'd been in my coaching journey for about five years at that time. Yeah, almost exactly five years. And, you know, I struggled for a long time as a coach, as a solopreneur, you know, in and out of having great months and making great money to making no money at all. so I was really kind of going to Adam to support me in like developing my coaching business. Like who am I as a coach and in my offering and in the way I then enroll people. And it wasn't necessarily worried about like actually coaching them and like creating transformation. was getting the clients through the door. Right. And then I think that's probably, you know, the struggle of a lot of coaches when they first start, especially if they don't have referrals or a reputation or, know, And that's probably the hardest part of building. You've got to be a good business person and a great coach. So anyone looking to, you know, do this work and do it on your own or, you know, not go work for like a better app or a Saroca or something, you know, be prepared that you also will need to become a business person. Anyway, so what Adam helped me do in the first part, this was late, late 2018, fall 2018, when we started working together. And what I knew about the people that came and worked with me was that they always had an experience of who I was. So whether it was somebody, Claire, that came from gaming, that hired me from gaming, they had an experience of who I was. Or if it was somebody that I had met in a workshop. I wasn't getting any cold leads that people were just kind of like coming, hiring me off the bat. So Adam asked me, how can you give people more of an experience of who you are? Claire Adamou (44:46) Thanks. Emily (45:08) And like just out in the world. And already I knew this thing about social media was in the back of my mind. So if there are any OG listeners out there or followers of mine, you might recall a period of time where I did a series of lives called MTV live. And for almost two years, well, for one solid year, I went live every single day as result of this conversation. And I continued that on. Adam Quiney (45:33) Mm. Emily (45:35) I I committed to like three months and then I continued on for like a year. So I did over, know, and hundreds of live videos as an opportunity to expand or share more of who I was with the world. I had the most successful year I'd ever had in my coaching business after that. COVID then hit a year later. That was an interesting ride. But yes, I worked with Adam for about a year. I think it was about a year. You know, I'm not going to lie. Adam is... Adam Quiney (45:56) Hahaha Emily (46:00) the most expensive coach that I have ever worked with and worth, definitely worth every penny. I'm not gonna say, not gonna bat an eye at that, but a significant investment in myself and in the work. And yeah, and I think like that's maybe just one example of I think some of the work that Adam really got me into action around. But I share that just because that doing all of those lives really cultivated who I am as a public speaker. Adam Quiney (46:02) Yeah. Emily (46:27) It really shaped who I am just in my relationship with myself and, you know, just all of your insecurities coming to the surface when you are learning to like just public speak for the first time or allowing yourself to be seen in the world in a new way. And yeah, and that was really, really significant in terms of my growth. And I just have a lot of respect for Adam and the rigor that he has in the stand that he is for, for the industry, for the business. and the commitments that he takes on in his own life from what I've been privy to witness. So that's a little tidbit, I suppose, into the experience. Adam is the kind of coach that says the hard thing. Adam is the kind of coach that, lovingly points to your ship and will not really let you bypass or step over what he sees. in you know in a loving and gentle way but you know but not always in a in a real and rigorous way you know like there's no bullshit over there really like he's gonna tell you tell you like he sees it so yeah does that give you a little insight into what it might have been like Claire Adamou (47:23) It does, yeah, thank you. What have you got to say in response to Emma's experience? Adam Quiney (47:29) Yeah. Well, it's so cool hearing that. And like, think it would be easy for people to hear that and then be like, she became accountable or something like that. You know, like, Emily did a hundred or however many like MTV episodes you did. But like the thing in the way of transformation first is like we don't take action because if we were to take action, we might have to confront what's scary about the action that is there for us to take. E.g. you put yourself out there every day. What if, and I'm making stuff up, right? But I could imagine because you and I have some stuff in common. If I put myself out there every day, what if I get 10, 10 viewers the first day and then five the next, and then no one watches my stuff for a year. Now I have to confront the fear that like no one likes me. No one finds me interesting to watch. I'm irrelevant and, and I'm a dud. Emily (47:59) after. Adam Quiney (48:20) And it's much easier to not take any action because then I don't have to confront that. It's sort of like having a lottery ticket that you never take to the store because you might still have one. Right. So that's the first steps to get into action. And then the next thing is once we're in action to to take the next step to face and be with the fear. So what you could have done during your journey is like, fuck you world. I'm sorry. Can we swear on this podcast? Huzzah. Claire Adamou (48:40) Yes. ⁓ Emily (48:40) Absolutely, I swear. Adam Quiney (48:46) Excellent. So as I was saying, fuck you world. You can't not watch me. I'm just gonna, and then you sort of do this thing where you clamp down on who you're being and you show up very invulnerable. So you don't have to feel the internal pain of shit. No one's watching me. And you just now what's happening in this sort of scenario would be you're taking the action, but you're not actually letting it impact you. And you're not actually allowing people to really see you through the action you're taking because you're showing up as this kind of armored. I'm fine. I don't hurt. doesn't matter that no one's here, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm not saying this exactly what happened, but this could have been the way it went. And what I saw you really do, Emily was one get into right action. You were taking the action. were, you did a lot of work to really start to honor your word to yourself. Such that rather than be accountable to me, you became really accountable to yourself. And then second, whilst then taking that action, I witnessed you allow yourself to be impacted by what was and was not happening. And then to allow that to guide who you were being as you continue to show up in alignment with your commitment. And then that's what, you know, once we start having right action and right being, that's where the wheels really start to turn over. So I just wanted to put that extra little bit of nuance does I, I guess what I need to do is go and do 150,000 lives. And that's right. Claire Adamou (49:53) and Emily (49:58) yeah. This is exactly the point, right? It's about what your journey is requiring of you to get into the deepest alignment, right? And that's because like it wasn't the fact that I went live every day that that generated the best, well, at that time, like the best year that I had had. It was who I became along the journey. And that's my then ability to impact people, whether they were listening to me or not, but in the kind of conversation where that would Adam Quiney (50:04) Ha Yes. Emily (50:21) actually enroll in the possibility of what it might be like to work together. So I think that that's absolutely fair. It's the journey of who we become along the way. ⁓ And just to double, one thing that came up twice as you guys were sharing for me that I don't think I said out loud was just what you said, Claretis, like the amount of tears in your coach training and Adam, for you, like going through the process of training. Like that's, I think the importance of training as a coach is doing a good training program as a means. Adam Quiney (50:29) Yes. Emily (50:48) to cultivate your own professional, like your own personal growth, especially then professional growth as a coach, because that's saying like, you can only take your clients as deep as you're willing to go, right? It's like doing a great coach training program has you do that work, right? Like that's what a great program is. It's not teaching you about it. It's taking you through it, right? It's like actually facilitating the work for you. So I think that's where, you I wouldn't necessarily trust a $10 coaching program online, but I would trust. Claire Adamou (50:57) Thanks. Thank Adam Quiney (51:06) Yes. Emily (51:14) You know, the program you did, Claire, it's got way too long of a name for me to name it. And we definitely trust AC and I see a lot of great coaches come out of that program. And then I think it's also, you know, about our continuing education and stuff after that. All right. I want to ask you a question, Adam, if there's one quality that you could give every leader or skill, one quality or skill that you could give every leader, what do you think would be the thing that would make the most difference for people in their Claire Adamou (51:17) Yes. Adam Quiney (51:22) Hahaha Emily (51:41) professional lives. Adam Quiney (51:42) I have a number of words to describe it. It's one quality that I'm trying to get at, but it'll sound like a few words. So it would be the humility, the grace and the courage to engage with a coach so as to come to a confrontation with their shortcomings as a human and take the next step. And what I see is often like all scaled towards humility. Emily (51:50) Hmm. Hmm. Adam Quiney (52:05) or all scaled towards grace or all scaled towards courage. And then they miss the part, you know, they're courageously making things happen, but they don't have the humility to really stop and fully take stock of their stuff or, it happens to be. So that sort of triad and then to work with someone that can really help them go deeper than they can go them themselves. That I think would be a beautiful planet to live on. Emily (52:21) Beautiful, love that. All right, one final more personal question. We did a podcast more recently with a gentleman named Moshi Adair. He works really closely with his brother, Ashley. And so where we have the opportunity to inquire around what is it like to work with family members? You work pretty closely with your wife, Bay Adam. Are you willing to tell us a little bit about what's that like in terms of working with your... Adam Quiney (52:31) Yay. Yes. Emily (52:48) life partner also as your business partner. Adam Quiney (52:52) It's super hard. It's so, so, so hard. Like it's, it's. We both are huge nerds for this work. So we love to just talk about it endlessly. And we're fascinated by, you know, the people's being underneath what presents on the surface. So we watch movies together and we're like, wow, this person like that's happening, but then underneath I can really get a sense of this and that part's awesome. I love that. But like, it's hard. It's hard to partner often because we, we We have our ways of showing up that are. well, there's this theory of relationship called the Imago theory, ⁓ pioneered by a man named, I always get his name wrong. think it's Harville Hendrix. I think that's right. And the idea is that each of us will, irresistibly be attracted to someone who has the reciprocal to our own wounding. So if I learn to take all the space up in the room, because I fear not being seen, I'm going to irresistibly be drawn to someone who hides themselves in the room because Emily (53:25) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Adam Quiney (53:47) they learned they are too much. And I'm to see that person be like, my God, look what they can do. Cause I could never let myself be that way. And then as time goes on and we're like, my God, why don't they take up space in the room? They never, you know, and so on and so forth. And so this happens in every relationship in my belief. And so that's alive for us in our partnership. And you know, Bay might on any given day be like, Adam, you're not leaving space for me. And I'm like, Bay, you're not stepping into space. And you know, that the truth of the matter is doesn't matter. Emily (54:02) Yeah. Adam Quiney (54:14) We're exquisite at seeing what's happening over there, but in our relationship, it doesn't matter at all. And it counts for nothing because we're in the swirl with each other. So as soon as I point to her version, she's going to point to my reciprocal to it and be like, well, you're doing blah, And so it requires a lot of support. You know, we work with a counselor. We both have our own coaches. We're very committed to both of those relationships. We've, we've done a lot of work in, in the, you know, in embodiment world, men's work, women's work, sacred intimacy, we're always working to kind of become better with each other. And I would just say it's it's one of the harder partnerships. It's very, very rewarding, super, super rewarding. I don't want to give the impression it's not, but I find it really challenging. And I know if you asked her, she would probably say the same Emily (54:55) We'll have to. Tell us a little bit about if the world wants to find you, where can they find you? Tell them a little bit about what else you're up to beyond those two initiatives. Self-plug time, go for it. Adam Quiney (55:02) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Claire Adamou (55:09) No, Emily (55:09) Woo! Claire Adamou (55:09) no, no. Adam Quiney (55:11) Heck yeah, finally, this is what I came for. The easiest place to find me is my website, which is just my name, Adam Quiney A-D-A-M-Q-U-I-N-E-Y.com. And that's where I post everything I create and put out into the world is available there. So I have a podcast called the Transformational Leader. You can read about the Forge, which I'll share briefly. You can read about all this stuff on my blog, my insights, everything. The intensives are kind of an opportunity for people to come and get about four days of this sort of work at an experiential level. you know, podcasts are amazing. Reading posts are amazing, but they filter in through our intellect. And there's no substitute for the experience because that's how wisdom is created. So that's usually a four day opportunity twice a year, September and May in Victoria, British Columbia, which is gorgeous, as you know, Emily. Emily (55:41) I Adam Quiney (55:58) And I really love this idea of getting people together, doing deep work. And then the magic that happens when we're just stirring coffee, talking to each other, there's something really profound that becomes available that you can't duplicate over zoom. And then the forage that's our year long program, September to May, for coaches and leaders that want to become transformational in their approach, as opposed to talk about it or learn about it. or whatever about it. They really want to like get this into the marrow of their bones so they don't have to think about it. It's just, it becomes who they are. And I really believe if you spend time with a person who has done a bunch of transformational work, IE they are transformed on some level that experience by itself is transformational. It, don't have to be getting coached by them. You don't have to, you might just sit with them and notice like, wow, Emily (56:34) Hmm. Adam Quiney (56:43) They seem to laugh a lot at themselves and don't have a lot of the anger they do when they make a mistake like I do. Maybe that's possible for me. You know, so it starts to create that shift and that's what we're developing in other people. So that's that's what the forge is. It's amazing and people should read more about it. ⁓ Emily (56:54) I love that. Thank you so much. Any final thoughts or questions Claire? Claire Adamou (57:01) No, I just want to say thank you so much, Adam. really, Adam Quiney (57:03) Mm-hmm. Claire Adamou (57:06) I know that this is probably one of our longest podcasts and we could still talk and talk and talk about this. And I am so grateful to have met you on this episode. I'm sure this will not be the last time that we'll be talking. I'm about to hit your website. I'm like, I want to know all about this. But no, I want to thank you for sharing so Adam Quiney (57:16) Hahaha Claire Adamou (57:27) much about yourself and the work that you do. I think it's been really educational for those that kind of don't know the deeper level of transformational coaching. And I think I'm grateful to you for that. And obviously for Emily, for you opening up about your journey and your experience working with Adam and what the work has done for you and your career. So I kind of wanted to just thank you both before you close us out, Adam Quiney (57:27) Ha ha ha ha. Emily (57:39) Thank Claire Adamou (57:52) Adam, any final thoughts, any snippets, any final words of wisdom for our listeners? Adam Quiney (57:58) The most important thing I've found in this work is that all of us are innocent and good at heart. And so I just would really invite people to hold themselves and others in that light to the best of their ability. And the more you do this work, it's not easy. Emily (58:07) Okay. Adam Quiney (58:14) The more we do this work, the more we see the world through that lens Emily (58:16) in part of my working with Adam, he helped me distill who I am in my essence. And the practice that, you know, Adam can take you through, or those many perhaps that are trained by AC can take you through is this process of what you find, like your essence, who you are in your core. Adam Quiney (58:26) Mm. Emily (58:34) So things that I'm just gonna leave us with. One is people will often say to us that they feel like Saroca has soul. And I think Saroca has soul because we truly are transformational leaders at our core. We truly come from love. I think that when you hang out with us, when you see us walking around a conference floor, when you see Claire and I together, you can feel that essence of love and transformation and acceptance and possibility. So, and on that note, Adam, so for those of you that know me or maybe are getting to know me through this podcast, you can distill for yourself, but in my essence, I am joy, integrity, radiance, a catalyst and a priestess. So thank you, Adam, for that. Thank you both for joining us on this episode of. Claire Adamou (59:09) and Adam Quiney (59:14) You Emily (59:16) Saroca speaks. Adam, your wisdom and your just heart is so beautiful and thank you for sharing it so generously with us today. Adam Quiney (59:17) Yeah. Claire Adamou (59:24) Thank you so much. Emily (59:25) Amazing. Thank you everyone. We will catch you next time. See you then. Adam Quiney (59:26) Thank you both. It's been a treat.